55 IN C9 OLED VRR ISSUES

Ffink20001_

So I just got my c9 oled on Wensday, amazing TV. However having vrr and low latency mode issues with xbox one X. Plugged Xbox one x directly into TV and when loading a game that supports it like fallout 76 or Gow 4 the frame rate and image goes all haywire, even menu options of the guide.. However games that dont support it don't have the issues. Disabling both modes fixes the issue but what's the point of buying a TV for those modes if they don't work?
Do when disabling them when playing gears 4 and or Fallout 76 setting Hdr mode to game mode does the same thing. Is this an lg issue, or xbox one x issue?

SlimNebuloid

New firmware is available. Patch notes are mostly about Alexa and minor bug fixes. Doesn’t mention Xbox specifically but let me know if it fixes anything. I don’t have time to install it right now. 

http://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers

JamalofLG

Ffink20001_, I'm having this researched and I will provide you an update soon. 

Ffink20001_

Going to try with a different hdmi cable granted using a Monster cable now, also have sky audioquest but doubt it's the cable

Ffink20001_

Switching hdmi cabels did not help

pelleran

Hi. I just got a C9 65 and installed with my xbox one x. I am an Electrical Engineer and I have some good experience with A/V. I see exactly the same issue. I am using one of the best HDMI 2.1 cables out there by Belkin certified for 48Gbps but no difference. I tried to use the HDMI cable that comes from xbox, no changes. I tried to use both port 1 and 3 for the HDMI on the TV, no changes. I noticed that if HDR is turned off, then game mode (VRR+low-latency) works fine. I feel that VRR and low-latency are somewhat activated together in game mode, so I am not sure which one is the problem. I tried this with both Forza Horizon and Devil May Cry, they both show the same problem with HDR+game mode. Changing color space in the xbox from 8 to 10-bit space did not help. Using the ycc 4:2:2 option did not help. I have the xbox 1 plugged into  HDMI 1, my old xbox 360 in port 2 and I just have a spare cable (unconnected) in port 3. All connections are direct HDMI cable, nothing in-between. I will try to unplug all the cables except the xbox one. I running out of options and I hope this will be resolved soon, since I waited and paid premium for the 2019 model exactly to be able to use the VRR and low-latency features! Meanwhile I will do more tests and report back if I find anything.

JamalofLG

pelleran, thanks for the explanation. Would you or Ffink20001_ be able to provide a photo or clip of what your seeing if possible?

pelleran

Photo won't do it, since won't show the "stuttering/skipping". I will try to upload a short clip. To me it looks like a sync issue, so VRR might be the problem. However, yesterday I tried to leave HDR and game mode ON on the TV and just deactivate "allow VRR" from xbox one, but issue remains. Do you know how VRR is activated on the TV? Is it activated automatically when game mode is selected?

JamalofLG

It should be automatic as with HDR but I have not tested it to be 100%.

pelleran

Jamal, I found this looking through forum:
"Small precision that is important: LG engineers have finally announced that the new Oled TVs do not support the FreeSync Xbox One S / X. Oled 2019 TVs support HDMI 2.1 Variable Refresh Rate (VRR). It is assumed that console manufacturers will need to update to make them VRR compliant which is only a variant of FreeSync / Adaptive Sync." This is from a French website here (using google translate since it is in French):
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.lesnumeriques.com/tv-televiseur/labo-tv-lg-oled-2019-televiseur-parfait-pour-jeu-video-n85419.html&prev=search
This topic is mentioned here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owner-s-thread-no-price-talk-20.html
So if this is the case and the TV enables VRR with game mode automatically, then this won't work with current xbox one, even if the FreeSync mode on the xbox is activated.
Can you please confirm that the above statement is correct please?

I also have another question for you: does the low-latency mode comes with ANY picture mode or ONLY with game mode?
Thanks!

JamalofLG

I don't have anything official about the console manufacturers needing to update to be VRR compliant, but as with anything new, updates will be released by all parties involved to ensure compliance and increase compatibility. Also low latency mode is exclusive to Game mode.

pelleran

When is VRR activated on the TV? Is this activated only in game mode?

pelleran

Ffink20001_, it seems that on other forums people are using gears 4 with no problem. Can you tell me your configuration on the TV? Especially all the connections to and from it. Thanks!

pelleran

***SOLVED!***

Yesterday after work I tried the following: I turned on the xbox and activated all the options in the video mode (basically just added the 4.2.2). Then with the TV off I removed all the cables except the hdmi on port 1 that connects to the xbox 1 x. The cable I disconnected are the 2 hdmi from port 2 and 3 (2 going to the xbox 360 and 2 just dangling for on-the-fly connections) and the optical cable for the audio. Then I turned on the TV, launched Forza horizon and the problem is gone! I then reconnected everything back and the issue is gone. At this point I am not sure what did it. On the instant response mode selection box on the tv it says that the feature might not work well if optical audio out is selected. I had the optical cable connected, but the optical out was NOT activated.

I tried few more games and I can confirm that HDR + low-latency is working fine now.

By the way, I noticed that you can be in low-latency mode on the tv with ANY picture mode. It does not have to be game mode necessarily. I can see that even in vivid mode (I like the colors better) the instant game response is turned on. Just in case you have not noticed this yet.

JamalofLG

Great! Thanks for the update.

SlimNebuloid

Pelleran’s solution doesn’t actually work. Enabling YCC 4:2:2 simply disables VRR and game mode. I’m getting screen tearing and inconsistencies all over the place suggesting VRR is not activated. In fact, even with both features disabled, simply using normal HDR in game mode causes the image to stutter. Oddly, switching to another non game mode makes it stop so there’s definitely a compatibility problem here. I’m going to return it if there’s no fix. Without the new features it’s no different than the C8 

Ffink20001_

Sorry it took so long to update, when I disable HDR 10 through the Xbox One X those modes work fine. When I enable hdr 10 but disable vrr and Allm through xbox One X everything works EXCEPT if I set game mode to hdr. Of course this is just in games that support Vrr.

I have xbox One X plugged into port 4 currently but tried it with and without anything else plugged in.. Enabled and disabled my St5000 Sony soundbar, reset Xbox to scratch.. even used different resolutions. 
Thing that's getting me is some say it's working but can't tell if they are running vrr games or if they even enabled it. Tried on 3 different games. 

SlimNebuloid

Yea the problem here is disabling things defeats the purpose of why we bought this tv in the first place. Like you said, even in standard HDR mode, the game picture setting stutters with all other features disabled. I can confirm that the PS4 pro is not having this issue but PS4 does not support low latency mode so there’s clearly a software compatibility issue at play it seems. I’m pretty pissed at this point because without these new features it’s no different than the c8 and I already have one. I’m going wait a little bit and see what LG says but if there’s no feedback I’m gonna return the tv while I still can. 

pelleran

I am not sure if enabling YCC 4.2.2 disables game mode. I hope Jamal can clarify this point. My guess is that it does not, since when I get in and out of Horizon 4 for example, I can clearly see the message that instant game response is switched on. So possibly YCC disables VRR and this means that the issue is with some sort of incompatibility between the TV VRR and the xbox free sync. In other forum gamers are reporting playing HDR, low-latency and vrr with no issues. I checked and they seem to also have the ycc 4.2.2 option checked.
In any case, enable ycc 4.2.2 only allows to drop to 4.2.2 instead of 4.2.0 if there are bandwidth limitations. I don't see how this can be related to game mode or vrr.
SlimNebuloid, how do you know that ycc disables vrr and game mode?

pelleran

Just did a quick test: turned ycc 4.2.2 on and off and there is no change with HDR and game mode. Cannot tell about VRR since there is no clear indication it is used. By the way, when VRR is used, it is possible that cinematic sequences (fixed fps) in games show tearing. At lease this is what I have read. For now I will leave it on.

SlimNebuloid

I see no visual improvements over disabling all features when using YCC. In fact it’s worse than just standard HDR on a non game mode. I get very noticeable screen tearing and no frame smoothing at all. It looked better on my C8. Maybe it’s the game I’m playing? I will get another one from a Redbox and try a different one. I’d be curious to know how the other people are getting it to work because I see just as many of us having this same issue. The game I’m using is sekiro, which I had read on digital foundry is supposed to look great with VRR enabled but it was tested on a Samsung. The search for an answer continues

pelleran

I do not see any changes in quality with or without YCC option. And I am using vivid mode with instant game response switched on (low-latency). Game mode on the tv seems too washed out in colors. And it seems that you can get low latency with any picture mode. I think with the C9 YCC has no impact since bandwidth is sufficient and there is no need to do downsampling. People reported great results with gears 4, hdr, game mode and vrr. But again, not easy to know if vrr is active or not.

SlimNebuloid

I will try gears 4 and see what happens. I don’t know if you noticed this, maybe it’s just me. Even if you disable VRR and ALLM on the Xbox, playing in HDR and game picture mode setting will still cause a stutter every 2 seconds making the game pretty much unplayable. Like a mild version of the disaster turning everything on causes. I’ve sent videos to lg customer support. I’d show them to you but I don’t know where I can upload them to link here. Another thing is the stutter I’m talking about stops if you switch off of game mode so I’m not entirely sure you’re getting low latency when you play on vivid but like I said I’ll try another game. Sekiro is a good example because it naturally has some frame rate issues that would be noticeably better if VRR was working properly. Games like gears that already run well would be harder to notice. If you know of a place I can upload and link the videos I’ll share them 

Ffink20001_

I notice though it seems to be an Hdr issue, games like wwe 2k19 and Zombi have no issue. I just want to know if it's a defect with my panel or is it normal? I have one more week to return or exchange otherwise it's warranty which luckily I got an extended plan. I like the TV, it's great but Lg should be fourth coming with Game mode info.. How many returns you think are going to happen because people buy for the gaming features and they don't work and because of lack of info people will assume defective set..

SlimNebuloid

I agree completely. 

SlimNebuloid

Pelleran, can you link the forums you’ve found where people are having success? 

pelleran

Will do. By the way when you say turning game mode off what do you do? I think that changing picture mode is not sufficient. You need to disable the instant game response in the additional picture options. Are you sure your hdmi cable is capable of hdmi 2.1? You need 48gbps bandwidth. I bought one certified by Belkin. Right now I don’t see the stuttering every 2 seconds even if I switch picture to game mode now. But that stutter is exactly what I was seeing before and it was going away only if I turned off the instant game response in the tv additional options. Try to leave only the Xbox hdmi connected and disconnect everything else. This is what I did and then the problem disappeared. I have everything reconnected now and still no issue. 

pelleran

This is the forum address:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/3057634-2019-c9a-e9-owners-thread-no-price-talk-23.html#/topics/3057634?page=75

SlimNebuloid

Yes I meant changing the picture mode when I said disabling game mode. And you were right about that. I did a bit more testing and VRR and ALLM are in fact active when using YCC 422. I went back and forth toggling the features off on the Xbox and I could see A difference so it is “working” sort of when we enable YCC 422, but i don’t believe this is the intended method. We have the latest tv on the market that should have no issues handling the uncompressed video with all the features enabled, so I still think there’s a software issue to be resolved. In the meantime we will have to use it with YCC 422 enabled. The evidence I’m pointing to to indicate there’s a problem is that the settings I used previously on my c8 cause stuttering on this one when VRR and ALLM are off on the Xbox but game mode is enabled on the tv. The description of YCC 422 in that it’s a method of compression suggests it’s a compatibility mode intended for lower end tv’s. We shouldn’t have to use it and I hope LG gets this patched ASAP. 

Went off on a tangent there. So for some reason (using YCC 422) the game sekiro actually runs worse when VRR is turned on than without. Massive screen tearing. I recall reading a review that said it was a lot better with VRR so something still isn’t quite right. 

Also for for these features, VRR and ALLM, we shouldn’t need a 48gbps cable yet. It’s still 4K at 60hz. Samsung tvs last year had these features and people use them with Xbox one x all the time with 18gbps cables. Now if we were able to use the 4K 120hz option, which is on the Xbox but I don’t think is enabled software wise on the tv yet, then we’d definitely need a 2.1 certified cable. They are extremely hard to find anyway and only go up to 6 feet it seems right now. 

Anyway thanks for bouncing info back and forth. Hopefully the mods are listening. Are you listening, moderators? Good luck with your set. we all just wanna geek out over some expensive kit that works properly. 

pelleran

Ok more interesting news...I did more experiments and I can confirm your results! With everything checked on the xbox video settings, everything is fine with HDR and instant game response on. However, as soon as I unchecked 4.2.2, I get the stuttering again! The reason why I mentioned before that there was no difference is that I did not restart the game after changing the settings! I discovered that it is critical to QUIT the game before changing the xbox setting  (for example turning on/off the YCC option) and then restart it in the new mode. I got confused before since I was just hitting the home button, changing the settings and resuming the game, and this does not make the changes effective, since the game needs to be restarted. However, I think 4.4.4 60fps and HDR is >18Gbps and so it belongs to HDMI 2.1. Just to point even more to the bandwidth issue, I tried 4.2.2 option OFF, WITHOUT HDR and everything is fine. I think there might be still some compatibility issue with hdmi 2.1.
I also believe that the fact that when disabling the instant game response on the TV the VRR option is grayed out on the xbox means that the TV is limited to 30fps in this mode and this explains why this mode works with 4.4.4 (4.2.2 option OFF) and HDR, since bandwidth is lower than 18Gbps.

By the way, I found a way to check if HDR and low-latency are activated on the tv. While in the game, I go into the TV option for the picture and I select "picture test". The TV switches to a picture and then by hitting back it goes back to the game and you should see both HDR icon and "instant game response is launched" message. I think this is a good indication that low-latency is activated.

pelleran

SlimNebuloid, you mentioned:
"...The evidence I’m pointing to to indicate there’s a problem is that the settings I used previously on my c8 cause stuttering on this one when VRR and ALLM are off on the Xbox but game mode is enabled on the tv..."
I believe you will get the stutter even if VRR and ALLM are on. If I am correct, the stutter should just need HDR+game mode (that is FPS>30) and 4.2.2 unchecked (no compression), regardless of VRR and ALLM. Unfortunately there is no way to test HDR+VRR only, since it seems that the TV activates instant game response mode as soon as VRR is activated on the xbox. Please try.

SlimNebuloid

You’re correct. Whatever is causing that needs to be fixed because starting there and turning on then other features compounds the problem. Enabling compression seems to alleviate it but not fully utilize the capability of the new tech. Hopefully LG will address it. I’m guessing it’s not a hardware defect at this point since everyone is seeing it.