I will also be returning the TV - this is simply false advertising.
In addition, the lack of PCM passthrough has severe knock-on effects for connected Windows 10 PCs. Since you're forced to connect an additional HDMI cable directly to your receiver to get adequate surround sound, and this requires a second virtual display, it completely messes up your windows and apps every time you power cycle the TV. This seems to be because the second display desktop resizes to something tiny like 640x480, and Windows, in its ageless wisdom, decides you must want all of your app windows resized to fit.
I was initially excited to simplify by PC gaming rig with eARC. Now it's a headache every time I use it!
Yeah, to say I am disappointed in LG would be a total understatement. Their whole customer service channel has been less than helpful as they've opted to employ stall tactics as evidenced in this thread. As as Canadian customer, I reached out to LG Canada by writing in with regards to the issues discussed in this forum (including a link to this thread) in addition to the full laundry list of issues regarding their half baked implementation of HDMI 2.1. I received the following one liner:
"As noted the issue has already been referred to the factory, we cannot offer any further assistance."
A total slap in the face for what I spent on this equipment. Not even an acknowledgement of the issue. I've also passed my return window so now I'm at the mercy of when, if ever, LG chooses to release a fix.
With regards to @JamalofLG reaching out to engineering, I think it's safe to say that if he hasn't received atleast an acknowledgement of said issues, we shouldn't be holding our breath for a fix anytime soon, if ever.
I could imagine that the update, that enables the 48G HDMI chipset, will "fix" this issue. At least thats what I am hoping for.
As far as we know the C9 actually has two HDMI chipsets (1x 2.0b 18G, 1x 2.1 48G). Unfortunately the 2.1 48G chipset is still disabled right now. In other words: The TV is curretly using a HDMI 2.0b chipset. Since HDMI 2.0b does not support eARC natively manufacturers have to workaround this with an dedicated eARC chip. This chip might be the bottleneck. On the other hand True HD and DTS HD MSTR seem to work fine... But still. We already know from sine AV-Receiver manufacturers that there are some AVRs that have a similar problem with eARC (Thats the way it is if manufacturers have to find their own way to implement something).
Anyway... Since "true" HDMI 2.1 48G has native support for eARC the dedicated eARC chip should be disabled then. This gives me hope that the HDMI 2.1 48G update will fix it. At least this is another chance for proper eARC support.
It is still frustrating that we still do not have a concrete answer regarding this problem.
fenster3000 1. There is no such thing as "the HDMI 2.1 48G update" for the OLED C9! 2. The HDMI 2.0 does support eARC natively (if designed in advance), no need for a "dedicated eARC chip"; 3. There is no "dedicated eARC chip that should be disabled" after "the HDMI 2.1 48G update" that does not exist;
There are only 2 features that are still missing from the C9: - support for 4K/2160p 120Hz content via HDMI 2.1 ports; - support for HDCP 2.3; Those features will be delivered via future firmware updates.
@dfa973 1. As far as I understand the C9 actually has 2 chipsets (If I recall correctly Vincent Teoh posted this). From which one of them is disabled at the moment. Thats why my guess is, that the C9 simply does not have the bandwidth at the moment in order to deliver "true" 2160p@120 (thats why I called this update "48G update). Or are you saying that the C9 does not support 48G in general (From what I have heard LG already confirmed 48GBit)? Instead they are using a 2.0b chipsets that will support 2160p@120@4:2:0?
2. That is new to me. When eARC first arrived on some AVRs a few years a go saw some videos and articles on how they implemented eARC on non-2.1 chipsets. Back then all of them used a dedicated chip in order to deliver eARC. Manufacturers also could not guarantee support for future devices. As it turned out this is true (as we know by now). But ok, if manufacturers somehow changed this stuff to include eARC directly into the 2.0b chipsets thats fine.
@mrhollywood360 All we know is that the 2160p@120 update will rollout later this year. But if dfa973 post right we should not expect any change regarding the LPCM issue.
I'm starting to really worry that this is a hardware flaw and not a software/firmware issue. I will be returning this and claiming on false advertising if this issue is not sorted
dfa973 is right. There is no need for an "eARC chip". eARC uses the bandwidth of the ethernet connection provided by supported HDMI cables to transmit sound data.
There is however a slight chance that the issue will be resolved together with the upcoming update that will bring 4K@120Hz support and HDCP 2.3.
It is still a shame that there hasn't been any updates in about 4 months. Technically the HDMI 2.1 implementation of the 2019 OLEDs right now is a scam. Today it is merely an 2.0b connection with VRR/ALLM (and a lackluster eARC solution). Samsung already offered that last year.
I'm seriously thinking of getting a Sony next year. At least eARC works properly for Sony OLEDs and there's a highchance they will get HDMI 2.1 as well.
This(for example) is one of those "eARC chips" I am talking about:
From my understanding this yellow chip is required to add support for eARC to devices that do not support this feature natively. At least that is one of those chips that I have seen in some AVRs. So manufacturers were able to patch this feature later on.
However, if we are talking about "true" HDMI 2.1 this chip should not be important (They also have a chip like that. But this should be included in the chipset).
Real-Life-Picture:
For reference a true HDMI 2.1 board:
At least in this case I do not see a chip like that between the ports and and SoC. But Maybe I am just blind (ok, there could be an eARC chip in on the top left).
But yea, this should be that important for our problem. However, if LG TVs really come with two dedicated HDMI chipsets this could be a chance. Unfortunately we still do not know where our problem with missing LPCM comes from. Maybe it is this chip that is bottlenecking. In that is the case our only chance is the other "chipset" (which needs an own chip). Or maybe this issue is fully software-related. In other words: This could be fixed with an easy firmware update.
(Again) unfortunately we have not heard from LGs engineers for month. This might be a hint that it is not possible to "fix" this via an easy firmware update.
@fenster3000 1. The C9 has two HDMI repeaters connected to the same port switch. One for "legacy HDMI 2.0" and one for the new HDMI 2.1. This is a hybrid solution - no manufacturer has taken this path until 2019. It is not a perfect solution and for sure, there can be some problems. 2. None of those HDMI repeaters are disabled. But the HDMI 2.1 repeater is working only at half "speed". Full "speed" will be enabled with a future firmware update. 3. The C9 DOES have full 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 ports, switch and repeater. No one is "saying that the C9 does not support 48G in general"! At least not me! 4. The legacy HDMI 2.0 repeater does not support 2160p@120@4:2:0, the maximum is 2160p@30@4:4:4 and 2160p@60@4:2:2 - this is true for any HDMI 2.0 device, not only for the C9. 5. In 2013, when HDMI 2.0 was released, eARC did not exist. In 2017 eARC was added to the HDMI 2.0 interface as a feature - in the same way as HDR was added in 2015 - and eARC is "native" to HDMI 2.0 only if the HDMI repeater/port can be "rewired" via firmware (or by direct hardware design). If the manufacturer did not choose the right HDMI solution he cannot implement eARC via firmware - only by changing the whole HDMI board. Result: only some devices are capable of supporting eARC. Those "eARC chips" exist only on development boards or prototypes. eARC does not need any special "eARC chip". 6. the LPCM issue has nothing to do with the 2160p@120Hz firmware update and can be resolved by LG at a different moment than the 2160p@120Hz firmware update or at the same time, it does not matter.
Should also be in one of his latest videos about the C9. That is why we know that the C9 (and probably the other LG OLEDs as well) use a hybrid solution.
Is a fix for this scheduled in a FW update yet? I am baffled that we are months into ownership of this device and this basic issue that should require minimal changes & testing still isn't fixed.
If there is a hardware or bandwidth limitation of some kind for PCM 7.1 at minimum I hope LG could make PCM 5.1 happen, PC gaming in particular is hurt badly by this as it has no Dolby/DTS mode only PCM multichannel.
Hi, I just entered as a member because I learned from the Dutch Denon service organisation that the core of the problem with Atmos is in the software of my new LG 55 C9 TV. My new Denon 4500 surround receiver can handle all 360 degrees sound-modes but Atmos does not come alive when I send an Netflix Atmos video from my LG thru eARC to my Denon. Yes, there is surround sound but Atmos isn't triggered in the AVR. Every supplier is telling of the magic Atmos experience but it is very disappointing that the LG eARC is the bottleneck. LG, please give the community an upgrade to solve this problem.
@dutchlg I've heard of other people fixing this problem by disabling eARC on the TV and just using ARC. You're not losing anything because Netflix sound is lossy anyways.
Samsung Q900 owners get a free update for HDMI 2.1 - so the Samsung TV has more features than the LG OLED. It is sad that LG does not react here and leaves the owners alone :-/ I can not recommend LG therefore currently.
LGs OLEDs already ship with a HDMI 2.1 chipset (with a firmware update comming later this year to enable stuff like 4k@120/HDCP 2.3. It is just eARC that is missing one feature (which hopefully will be added/fixed in a firmwareupdate.).
We also do not know if Samsungs implementation is working fine. However: Silence is killing me (probably most of you as well). It would be really nice if we finally receive an update regarding the Multi Channel LPCM issue. I guess that is the reason we are here ಠ_ಠ
I am just not waiting longer and returning my LG c9. It was said by LG that all sound codecs are supported and hdmi 2.1 is included etc... so what not allow to make use of it through all sources? It is cherry picking! I mean the internal player should be easily capable passing through lossless sound, not so difficult. Just read and pass to av receiver. Boom.
It is just amazing how different company's deal with
situations like this. Some are upfront and provide timely updates. Then you
have this company, LG, who purposely keeps their customers in the dark. This
is truly pathetic. I am sure someone in LG is looking at this issue and
possibly even working on the solution. All they need to do is just provide some
updates.
@JamalofLG, have you heard anything from engineering? At the very least an acknowledgment of the problem? A response other than you are working with engineering would be greatly appreciated. Seeing as to how this LPCM oversight was brought to the attention of LG several months ago, an acknowledgement and proper response is way overdue.
Answers
In addition, the lack of PCM passthrough has severe knock-on effects for connected Windows 10 PCs. Since you're forced to connect an additional HDMI cable directly to your receiver to get adequate surround sound, and this requires a second virtual display, it completely messes up your windows and apps every time you power cycle the TV. This seems to be because the second display desktop resizes to something tiny like 640x480, and Windows, in its ageless wisdom, decides you must want all of your app windows resized to fit.
I was initially excited to simplify by PC gaming rig with eARC. Now it's a headache every time I use it!
"As noted the issue has already been referred to the factory, we cannot offer any further assistance."
A total slap in the face for what I spent on this equipment. Not even an acknowledgement of the issue. I've also passed my return window so now I'm at the mercy of when, if ever, LG chooses to release a fix.
With regards to @JamalofLG reaching out to engineering, I think it's safe to say that if he hasn't received atleast an acknowledgement of said issues, we shouldn't be holding our breath for a fix anytime soon, if ever.
Smh...
As far as we know the C9 actually has two HDMI chipsets (1x 2.0b 18G, 1x 2.1 48G). Unfortunately the 2.1 48G chipset is still disabled right now. In other words: The TV is curretly using a HDMI 2.0b chipset. Since HDMI 2.0b does not support eARC natively manufacturers have to workaround this with an dedicated eARC chip. This chip might be the bottleneck. On the other hand True HD and DTS HD MSTR seem to work fine... But still. We already know from sine AV-Receiver manufacturers that there are some AVRs that have a similar problem with eARC (Thats the way it is if manufacturers have to find their own way to implement something).
Anyway... Since "true" HDMI 2.1 48G has native support for eARC the dedicated eARC chip should be disabled then. This gives me hope that the HDMI 2.1 48G update will fix it. At least this is another chance for proper eARC support.
It is still frustrating that we still do not have a concrete answer regarding this problem.
1. There is no such thing as "the HDMI 2.1 48G update" for the OLED C9!
2. The HDMI 2.0 does support eARC natively (if designed in advance), no need for a "dedicated eARC chip";
3. There is no "dedicated eARC chip that should be disabled" after "the HDMI 2.1 48G update" that does not exist;
There are only 2 features that are still missing from the C9:
- support for 4K/2160p 120Hz content via HDMI 2.1 ports;
- support for HDCP 2.3;
Those features will be delivered via future firmware updates.
1. As far as I understand the C9 actually has 2 chipsets (If I recall correctly Vincent Teoh posted this).
From which one of them is disabled at the moment. Thats why my guess is, that the C9 simply does not have the bandwidth at the moment in order to deliver "true" 2160p@120 (thats why I called this update "48G update). Or are you saying that the C9 does not support 48G in general (From what I have heard LG already confirmed 48GBit)? Instead they are using a 2.0b chipsets that will support 2160p@120@4:2:0?
2. That is new to me. When eARC first arrived on some AVRs a few years a go saw some videos and articles on how they implemented eARC on non-2.1 chipsets. Back then all of them used a dedicated chip in order to deliver eARC. Manufacturers also could not guarantee support for future devices. As it turned out this is true (as we know by now). But ok, if manufacturers somehow changed this stuff to include eARC directly into the 2.0b chipsets thats fine.
@mrhollywood360
All we know is that the 2160p@120 update will rollout later this year. But if dfa973 post right we should not expect any change regarding the LPCM issue.
I will be returning this and claiming on false advertising if this issue is not sorted
There is however a slight chance that the issue will be resolved together with the upcoming update that will bring 4K@120Hz support and HDCP 2.3.
It is still a shame that there hasn't been any updates in about 4 months.
Technically the HDMI 2.1 implementation of the 2019 OLEDs right now is a scam.
Today it is merely an 2.0b connection with VRR/ALLM (and a lackluster eARC solution). Samsung already offered that last year.
I'm seriously thinking of getting a Sony next year. At least eARC works properly for Sony OLEDs and there's a highchance they will get HDMI 2.1 as well.
From my understanding this yellow chip is required to add support for eARC to devices that do not support this feature natively. At least that is one of those chips that I have seen in some AVRs. So manufacturers were able to patch this feature later on.
However, if we are talking about "true" HDMI 2.1 this chip should not be important (They also have a chip like that. But this should be included in the chipset).
Real-Life-Picture:
For reference a true HDMI 2.1 board:
At least in this case I do not see a chip like that between the ports and and SoC. But Maybe I am just blind (ok, there could be an eARC chip in on the top left).
But yea, this should be that important for our problem. However, if LG TVs really come with two dedicated HDMI chipsets this could be a chance. Unfortunately we still do not know where our problem with missing LPCM comes from. Maybe it is this chip that is bottlenecking. In that is the case our only chance is the other "chipset" (which needs an own chip). Or maybe this issue is fully software-related. In other words: This could be fixed with an easy firmware update.
(Again) unfortunately we have not heard from LGs engineers for month. This might be a hint that it is not possible to "fix" this via an easy firmware update.
1. The C9 has two HDMI repeaters connected to the same port switch. One for "legacy HDMI 2.0" and one for the new HDMI 2.1. This is a hybrid solution - no manufacturer has taken this path until 2019. It is not a perfect solution and for sure, there can be some problems.
2. None of those HDMI repeaters are disabled. But the HDMI 2.1 repeater is working only at half "speed". Full "speed" will be enabled with a future firmware update.
3. The C9 DOES have full 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 ports, switch and repeater. No one is "saying that the C9 does not support 48G in general"! At least not me!
4. The legacy HDMI 2.0 repeater does not support 2160p@120@4:2:0, the maximum is 2160p@30@4:4:4 and 2160p@60@4:2:2 - this is true for any HDMI 2.0 device, not only for the C9.
5. In 2013, when HDMI 2.0 was released, eARC did not exist. In 2017 eARC was added to the HDMI 2.0 interface as a feature - in the same way as HDR was added in 2015 - and eARC is "native" to HDMI 2.0 only if the HDMI repeater/port can be "rewired" via firmware (or by direct hardware design). If the manufacturer did not choose the right HDMI solution he cannot implement eARC via firmware - only by changing the whole HDMI board. Result: only some devices are capable of supporting eARC. Those "eARC chips" exist only on development boards or prototypes. eARC does not need any special "eARC chip".
6. the LPCM issue has nothing to do with the 2160p@120Hz firmware update and can be resolved by LG at a different moment than the 2160p@120Hz firmware update or at the same time, it does not matter.
Should also be in one of his latest videos about the C9.
That is why we know that the C9 (and probably the other LG OLEDs as well) use a hybrid solution.
My new Denon 4500 surround receiver can handle all 360 degrees sound-modes but Atmos does not come alive when I send an Netflix Atmos video from my LG thru eARC to my Denon. Yes, there is surround sound but Atmos isn't triggered in the AVR.
Every supplier is telling of the magic Atmos experience but it is very disappointing that the LG eARC is the bottleneck.
LG, please give the community an upgrade to solve this problem.
DTS HD MSTR/True HD (also lossless) are working just fine via eARC.
Thank you for the messages.
It is sad that LG does not react here and leaves the owners alone :-/
I can not recommend LG therefore currently.
It is just eARC that is missing one feature (which hopefully will be added/fixed in a firmwareupdate.).
We also do not know if Samsungs implementation is working fine. However: Silence is killing me (probably most of you as well). It would be really nice if we finally receive an update regarding the Multi Channel LPCM issue. I guess that is the reason we are here ಠ_ಠ
It is just amazing how different company's deal with situations like this. Some are upfront and provide timely updates. Then you have this company, LG, who purposely keeps their customers in the dark. This is truly pathetic. I am sure someone in LG is looking at this issue and possibly even working on the solution. All they need to do is just provide some updates.
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